CamWithHim

• I have heard numerous stories about Chris and Mike Downs owners of AllAmericanguys.com pulling this same stuff with numerous people! someone really needs to put a stop to this type of unfair business. such pigs! yuck!

  by poopshoot 5.15.2010 - 10:23 pm

• Yea I saw on some webmaster forum that they also did it to camguys.org and they also did it to a former model of theirs that I know of as well. I’m a good candidate to stop them I believe though

  by steve 5.16.2010 - 12:54 am

• Yeah they did it to Bryan Thomas’ site, I would also make a report of it here: http://www.chillingeffects.org/ as it is internet bullying.

  by rapsody7 5.16.2010 - 12:56 am

• Thanks rapsody, I already actually filed it there. I’m still waiting to hear back from them.

  by steve 5.16.2010 - 2:04 am

• I have read in many forum that these men who are behind allamericanguys do this unfair business and are not very nice to their male models what they think they can tell us, the fans where to go!?!? jajajahaha….NO! good luck Steve!

  by poopshoot 5.16.2010 - 3:49 am

• Not trying to defend the other side and I hope you keep my post up here Steve, but when someone told me about this I just had to comment, so if you’re a democratic person you will let other opinions be heard. So here goes.

  i’m actually a big fan of Aaron and Matt from days gone by, and I’m wondering if this is not just KARMA that’s coming back on you. Based on what i know you didn’t treat those guys so nice yourself, including stealing their domains and a host of other not so nice things. In addition, I have heard from many former cam models who are not happy with your business practice and consider it shady.

  So while I’m not defending anyone, maybe you shouldn’t throw stones at glass houses. And maybe what Z productions is doing is defending their brand the legal way and for a good reason, i assume.

  Karma is always a bitch, ya know!

  by gregbisker 5.16.2010 - 3:06 pm

• greg, I’m sure you only heard their side of the story. I didn’t steal their domain…the person that had it forwarded it to mine because he was mad at them.

  by steve 5.16.2010 - 8:23 pm

• btw what other not so nice things are you referring to?

  me and matt are cool with eachother and talk from time to time…aaron I haven’t heard from in a while though.

  by steve 5.16.2010 - 8:29 pm

• ok so i am friends too with guys who did photo shoots with allamericanguys.com they tell me that working for that website is a scam and it ruined their career as a real life model. and also that allamericanguys.com is just front for website for thecamguys.com who is owned by photographer Michael A Downs.

  is that who you say is suing you steve!?!?

  by poopshoot 5.17.2010 - 12:25 am

• I haven’t heard from Mike…I’m hearing more from his partner Chris Wescott and his lawyer Mark Bortner I think his name is.

  by steve 5.17.2010 - 1:01 am

• I’m kind of upset because i love both camwithhim and thecamguys why you both fight? no reason, you both are the best cam sites for male models out there. I even find vista, strengthnet and allamericanguy cams boring but CWH and TCG are great. Hope you work out your differences.

  and poopshoot why you create trouble among the sites? these guys careers are not ruined because they cam on here or other site? i know one of my favorite models Bryan thomas cams on cam guys and also is model for Silver Models. I’m sure they know how to make their own choices. You make it seem as if being a cam model is bad. Shame on you poop! shame shame shame

  by diarrhea5 5.17.2010 - 2:22 am

• All I can tell you is that I have been camming with Bryan Thomas for years and he still takes my breath away. Noone else compares on either site.

  by Bryan Thomas Fan 5.17.2010 - 3:16 am

• Steve, why are you censoring our posts that say anything nice about TCG? I have two questions for you before you censor me again:

  I wasn’t going to get into this with you, but you are obviously using your site to slander another company and editing out anything that doesn’t have YOUR point of view.

  1. If YOU are not doing anything illegal why are you forced to move your servers overseas?

  2. Why is your biggest defender somebody with the screen name of “poopshoot”? That might give you some idea of where you truly stand legally on this issue.

  I know you are going to censor this too, but at least we know what you are doing here.

  by Bryan Thomas Fan 5.17.2010 - 2:36 pm

• Steve that’s good you and Matt are cool but you can’t take back the past and the bad stuff that went down with you guys and the reason they left GWC to start Flexartist. And i wish you no ill will but sometimes when you do shady things to people it comes back on you, that’s all I was saying.

  by gregbisker 5.17.2010 - 4:09 pm

• Yes i have a silly screen name but that does not mean my opinion does not count or the facts that I present to be untrue or a lie!

  I am not the only customer who is aware of what allamericanguys.com has done with current and previous models. I am just the only customer who is speaking up rite now!

  I am new to this website so maybe there is also things that have happened in the past that I am not aware of?? there is always 2 sides to story.

  it is good that we are being made aware of what is going on here. I hope that everything works out and that we continue to see male models! it would make me happy to know the models are being treated fairly.

  ok I said my peace.

  Thank you,
  Mickey

  by poopshoot 5.17.2010 - 4:49 pm

• Bryan Thomas Fan, or should I say Chris Wescott or Mike Downs? Yea, your IP goes to dt082nee.tampabay.res.rr.com…nice try lol. Future tip: use a proxy next time

  1. The only thing I censored out of your post was your direct link to your site…gee I wonder why I did that? To answer your further question. The reason I’m not doing anything illegal is because it’s a bogus claim and the US hosts are scared of you sue happy assholes. I’m not though

  2. The name is irrelevant. For you to even say that, shows you have no real ammo.

  And greg, you still never told me what I did that was so bad / shady? Aaron left because he wanted his own site…not because of anything I did. The one thing you did say about the domain wasn’t even true. I believe the guys name was Brice or something that used to manage flexartist. Him and Aaron I guess had a falling out so he re-directed the domain to gwc to get back at Aaron. I had nothing to do with that.

  by steve 5.17.2010 - 8:44 pm

• Steve, i’ll just let the past stay in the past. If you don’t remember all the threads and comments that were made online regarding you and them, and especially what was said on Flexartist.com’s site then maybe it’s good that it stays buried. But I think you know where I’m coming from.

  As for Michael Downs or the other person you mentioned, I have no clue what you guys’ issue is, and I won’t get involved. But I will say that he is one hell of a great photographer. Maybe you should get him to shoot models for your site. What a way to put things on the good with you guys. LOL

  by the way what ever happened to your model Tyler W? I never see him online anymore.

  by gregbisker 5.18.2010 - 1:42 am

• Greg, please, if you have something to say, feel free. I’d actually like to know so I can tell you my side of the story. I don’t recall any of the threads you’re referring to. I know there was some stuff out there but I don’t really remember all what happened.

  Unfortunately, I don’t think your idea to resolve the issue with Mike Downs is very likely to happen haha.

  Tyler W has been MIA for some time.

  by steve 5.18.2010 - 2:08 am

• Hello Steve I am actually new here. I just want to say that you run a quality website with quality models!

  So I’m hearing that this chris wescott and michael downs are quite the internet bullies! I work with several people in the industry and have actually done some photography for a few of the popular male workout magazines.

  These two guys names have came up in several conversations among myself, agents and models. A former model actually made me aware of this situation.

  For one I am pretty sure what they are doing rite of the bat is illegal by forcing guys to sign a non compete to work on their male porn website “thecamguys.com” Do you force your models to sign such a contract!? is such a contract legal??

  I would typically keep my mouth shut on such an issue as I am not involved. But after all of the stories I have heard about these two guys I thought it was my duty to stand up and speak out!

  Also did I read correctly that they are trying to Trade Mark or Copy Right “The Cam Guys!?”
  I mean seriously common! there are probably 100′s of “Cam Guy” web sites out there!

  well hopefully this unjust and unfair business practice ends here. I wish you the best and hope you treat your models with more respect then these guys do.

  Good luck cowboy!

  -Paul

  by bca1983 5.21.2010 - 12:02 am

• Thanks for chiming in Paul. It is my understanding that the agreement is legal, however hard to enforce. From what I’ve been told our agreement is a bit different, we appreciate exclusive models, but it’s not mandatory.

  And yes, they trademarked “the cam guys”. I totally agree with you on that point!

  by steve 5.21.2010 - 4:55 am

• I’m an AAG fan so full disclosure. And the online attack on them and thecamguys is pretty awful. I have heard quite the opposite and that theyve helped launched a lot of guy’s careers who’ve gone on to become big in the modeling industry. I also have been following the male model sites since day one and it was actually AAG who pioneered male fitness models online in 99. The website strengthnet started doing male model profiles like AAG in 2001 or 2002 i believe. So you could say strengthnet copied AAG. Not the other way around

  but the whole thing is silly actually. In America its called competition. Like Burger King copying McDonalds that came first? Lol

  i just think its mean spirited for these anonymous cowards saying bad things about a group of people who are apparently just protecting their brand. They didn’t achieve the success they got by being bullies

  and to the previous poster, calling the cam guys porn is ridiculous considering they do the same thing on there as they do on Cam with him. So does that mean this site is porn too? Lol. What a ridiculous argument

  i hope Steve and Chris/Mike work things out but stop the bashing already

  by maverick455 5.22.2010 - 12:39 pm

• Maverick, I hope you’re not implying that I’m bashing. I just stated the facts and my opinion on the matter.

  Chris and Mike have their supporters as well. Obviously I’m not one of them. They haven’t made a good impression in the webmaster community from what I’ve been reading.

  I welcome all opinions and all sides to this blog post. Thank you for your post.

  by steve 5.23.2010 - 2:51 am

• Steve that wasn’t directed at you. I was referring to the posters who are just not making sense with their arguments. Like the guy who shoots for “popular magazines” and deals with model agents yet he’s hanging out and posting on a male cam site that he himself describes as “porn”. LOL. I think the point of your whole posting is being sidetracked by personal attacks.

  by maverick455 5.23.2010 - 11:50 am

• I think the aag guys are just being tough with protecting their trademarks or whatever. Kinda reminds me of the good ole USA that is accused around the world of being a bully because they are looking out for their/our interests. I will always be an aag fan but i have subscribed to your site before Steve. Again hope you guys resolve it

  by maverick455 5.23.2010 - 11:56 am

• I hope so too maverick

  by steve 5.23.2010 - 10:44 pm

• “Greg, please, if you have something to say, feel free. I’d actually like to know so I can tell you my side of the story.”

  Well there’s a lot to say but for one, I’ve heard a few guys were not happy with the direction you were going and saying things like Steve Ranieri runs porn websites and they didn’t want anything to do with it. I thought they were referring to camwithhim but come to find out you run nude adult cams and such. It’s also things like you supposedly pay some models one rate and others lower rate and play favoritism. It was also things like you don’t pay any attention to the male cam site and you’re only concerned about your female cam site, which probably earns you more money. And there were stories of bad blood with you and your former employee or partner Abby who no longer works for you, etc. So the list goes on. People talk you know!

  You try to come off as this innocent, never do anything wrong kinda person but there’s a lot of people with beef against you my friend. Again no ill will intended but it’s karma, i’m telling you. karma. look it up in the direction. and why didn’t you try to work something out so that the domains for Flexartist weren’t forwarded back to them?

  Not to defend the Z prod guys cause I don’t know them but I also agree with the previous poster Maverick on why the other posters hating on them is trying to call them out on doing porn but it’s actually your brands that openly promote that. Anyway, enough of my rambling. I thought i was done, but you asked Peace.

  by gregbisker 5.27.2010 - 6:58 pm

• i meant to say “look it up in the dictionary”, not direction. LOL karma that is.

  by gregbisker 5.27.2010 - 7:16 pm

• Greg…if that’s your real name, I’m beginning to suspect you’re not actually who you say you are either judging from your AOL IP and wealth of knowledge about me. I just happen to know a certain photographer that likes to use AOL. At least you were smart about it and used AOL which is basically like using a proxy. I already have proof that Bryan Thomas Fan is someone from Z Productions, Inc. I also have a copy of the comment he posted (which should come in handy) that didn’t go through because he tried to spam TCG a bunch of times. Do you really want to further incriminate yourselves? Regardless, I will answer your questions.

  The nude site was put in place because the guys here were getting nude anyways. It was getting to a point where it was happening too often so I just went with it and found them a place to go to do that if they so chose to. I still stuck to my guns here and kept camwithhim non nude, unlike some other sites out there.

  We pay all models the same rates unless they’re not exclusive.

  Since the girl site is more popular, it does require more of my time, yes. I’m not denying that. If this was more popular, I’d spend more time here. It’s pretty logical.

  Yes, Abbie and I have had our issues obviously.

  I had no control over the domain forwarding. As far as I know, there is no way to anti-forward a domain.

  And isn’t it better to be open about something (nudity in this case) than to hide behind a facade?

  Greg (if that’s your real name), when you’re successful, people will have beef against you, regardless of how “innocent” you are. I feel that in all the cases above that you have pointed out, I’m being truthful and I’m not in the wrong so to speak. There are two sides to every story…you just haven’t heard mine (or chose not to hear it).

  by steve 5.28.2010 - 12:25 am

• Uuuh, yeah the name is Greg and no i’m not a photographer. I actually work in the catering business. LOL. You’re starting to sound kinda paranoid. And what is a proxy?

  Anywhooooo, I appreciate the reply. Like i said before you asked what I knew and I told you. The first thing I mentioned was that I was a fan of Matt & Aaron’s websites from days gone by and from there I got clued in to a lot of things that have happened with you. I happen to follow a lot of the cam sites out there so it’s no surprise i know things. I know models who work for you, since I have cammed with them on Skype and other outlets and these guys talk ya know. they really do!

  Now if you’d bring Tyler W. back maybe I’ll cut you some slack! LOL

  by gregbisker 5.28.2010 - 2:39 am

• If I’m wrong about who you are, I apologize. Perhaps I am a bit peranoid. I blaim that on the Bryan Thomas Fan account. I wouldn’t be surprised though.

  You might be in luck with Tyler W coming back actually. I may just have some news about that coming up in the next day or two

  by steve 5.28.2010 - 5:07 am

• I think that everyone knows a few things about AAG and GWC :

  1) they’re businesses

  2) they’ve been around for awhile

  3) they both have very hot guys

  I don’t know if this is *karma* for Steven or if it is *karma* for AAG, but there have been plenty of complaints from the model side of things, especially in respect to AAG. i.e. AAG not paying well etc., though I would find it hard to believe that AAG doesn’t bring in a pretty penny, but maybe they don’t if they can’t afford to bring back and pay well their most popular guys. A lot of models complain about the long days and hours, and minimal payback.
  In regards to the flexartist thing, I do think there was some fall out between Matt/Aaron and Steve, but how the whole thing went down I don’t know. Personally, I don’t recall an amicable ending.

  However, pretty much all of this is regardless and loses site of the focus of what is happening, or what AAG is doing. They do not, nor should they ever, have any claim to the title ‘cam guy’ as it is a position someone holds, and has existed prior to and outside of thecamguys.com for years. Just as Steve wouldn’t be able to copyright the term, neither would AAG. It’s a position, not a catch phrase. You can’t copyright janitor anymore so than you can cam guy(s). That’s the problem, it is very shady and disturbing that AAG would go to these lengths to hurt the competition, instead of playing the capitalist game and competing via product (cam guys) and prices (i.e. lower your cut so models can take more per minute and lower theirs :O).

  I have been a fan of the models and Mike’s extraordinary talent for years, but it is bothersome to see these kinds of politics. Not to mention, AAG already bullied on of their own models to take down a cam site he had and threatened to sue (the threat of being sued can overwhelm those without the means/time those who can’t afford to stand up) and, cyber bullying, that’s the real issue.

  *A real Bryan Thomas Fan*

  -rapsody7

  by rapsody7 6.29.2010 - 11:54 am

• Thanks for the very well thought out comment rapsody…I just noticed it. Sorta lost touch with the comments from the post moving down the list.

  by steve 7.14.2010 - 6:21 pm

• Just as an update to this, if anyone was by chance still reading this. I won the case against Z Productions, Inc. through a summary judgement due to the fact that I had prior use to the term. Suck it Chris!

  by admin 12.30.2011 - 2:32 am

• Oh and Z Productions, Inc. no longer owns the trademark to “the cam guys”. Winning!

  by admin 12.30.2011 - 2:35 am

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